Crane HI-6M ignition module
- Thread starter 206LSdrvr
- Start date
I have not used that specific brand of engine controller however i did a fair amount of hot rodding in my youth before I realized all those tickets I was getting was causing my license to be extremely stressed!!
Anyway I always made sure I either had my distributer curved for the specific engine/car it was going into or would use one of the computer controll boxes similar to what you are looking at. The curve can vary even with the same engine in different cars,or with different transmissions. Almost anything in the setup of the whole car can change the ideal ignition curve, and when an engine is curved properly you would be amazed at the difference it can make on a modified engine. So many people are driving around with poorly running hot rodded engines and blaming it on "too much cam" or some other excuse when the cure is a simple as a correctly curved ignition system.
In a nut shell I doubt you would be happy with a curve specifically set up for a big block used on a small block engine. Even if you had two engines making the same horsepower a smaller engine does it at different rpm's and the curve would be substantially different. Your best bet would be to get an MSD unit that you can completely adjust the curve,from the slope to the overall advance built in, a high speed retard, built in, may also help depending on how radical your engine is or if you are supercharged.
Even without a dyno it is easy to do the adjustments on a boat. Just make sure you mount it where you can get to it while under way. You will need to adjust for top speed then probably back it down a bit to make it start ok and not ping at mid speed loads.
Anyway I always made sure I either had my distributer curved for the specific engine/car it was going into or would use one of the computer controll boxes similar to what you are looking at. The curve can vary even with the same engine in different cars,or with different transmissions. Almost anything in the setup of the whole car can change the ideal ignition curve, and when an engine is curved properly you would be amazed at the difference it can make on a modified engine. So many people are driving around with poorly running hot rodded engines and blaming it on "too much cam" or some other excuse when the cure is a simple as a correctly curved ignition system.
In a nut shell I doubt you would be happy with a curve specifically set up for a big block used on a small block engine. Even if you had two engines making the same horsepower a smaller engine does it at different rpm's and the curve would be substantially different. Your best bet would be to get an MSD unit that you can completely adjust the curve,from the slope to the overall advance built in, a high speed retard, built in, may also help depending on how radical your engine is or if you are supercharged.
Even without a dyno it is easy to do the adjustments on a boat. Just make sure you mount it where you can get to it while under way. You will need to adjust for top speed then probably back it down a bit to make it start ok and not ping at mid speed loads.
Macjazzy,
You came to some of the same conclusions I did. I'm running a total advance of 34 degrees now with the T'bolt IV ignition. The engine is NA. The Crane unit has some features that the MSD does not have and that is why I was considering it. I will probably talk to Crane sometime in the next few days to see if it can be programmed manually for a non programmed curve. Thanks for the input.
You came to some of the same conclusions I did. I'm running a total advance of 34 degrees now with the T'bolt IV ignition. The engine is NA. The Crane unit has some features that the MSD does not have and that is why I was considering it. I will probably talk to Crane sometime in the next few days to see if it can be programmed manually for a non programmed curve. Thanks for the input.
From all my sources comes the fact that Crane has it all over MSD in the reliability factor. Sure , NASCAR runs MSD...they like them so much the equip each car with two and switch in the cockpit so it can be changed on the fly :
. For most reasonable engines Thunderbolts work fine and reliability is bar none.
After that , Crane would be my next choice 8)
. For most reasonable engines Thunderbolts work fine and reliability is bar none. After that , Crane would be my next choice 8)
Mopower, I have read on some othe other boating forums about reliability of the MSD boxes. This was another factor that led me towards the Crane. It does have a generic N/A curve programmed in. I think it gets full advance about 1K rpm sooner than the T'bolt IV. Right now it is in the headscratching stage. My T'bolt is doing fine now and I've had no problems with it. Still sometime in the future I would like to try it unless I find out for sure that it won't work.
In defence of MSD I think some of the guys on the other forums were not using marine boxes.
In defence of MSD I think some of the guys on the other forums were not using marine boxes.
Do you really think that Nascar drivers would use an inferior product just becuase someone said put this sticker on your car? I mean you hear every week about some crew chief getting suspended and fined due to using the wrong part or bending the rules a little. If there was any performance increase to be had with a crane module trust me someone would be using one. I would venture a guess and say that well over 75% of all professional racers of any sport, off shore, baja, dirt track, rally, etc, use a MSD unit. I can also tell you as a mechanic and former hot rodder, at least 95% of all electrical problems people have with aftermarket items are a direct result in their own workmanship and wiring ability. Use better connections than you think you will need, use better wire than you think you need, and spend your time doing the job right the first time and you will be rewarded with long lasting and reliable electronics no matter what the brand.
Well here's something that will jar your preserves ;D. Did you know in a reasonable NA engine , that POINTS produce more power up to 5000 rpms than other types of ignitions? This is followed by a plethora of electronic ignitions which are good to around 6000 rpms. So in short , unless you have a high compreesion blower motor or spinning your NA engine 7000 rpms , I personally can't see any advantage given the reduced reliability factor.
BTW my buddys got a shop with a box of junk MSD boxes. For years , before MSD started potting all their boxes , the NASCAR guys would send them to Nelson Specialties who would literally dump everything out and replace the components with higher quality parts.
BTW my buddys got a shop with a box of junk MSD boxes. For years , before MSD started potting all their boxes , the NASCAR guys would send them to Nelson Specialties who would literally dump everything out and replace the components with higher quality parts.
i am not sure where you get your " stats" that pooints work better than electronic ignition systems. I would file that right up there with " auto manufacturors have kept 200mpg carb from us for years so they can sell more cars" or " ______insert company name here_____ could amke these so they last forever but they don't so they can sell us more of them" I just don't buy the idea that big brother companies are stiffeling all these incredible inventions to keep us all under their thumb. Even if your ideas about the performance of points style v. elcetronic style ignition is true the idea that points are more reliable than electronis ignition is laughable. That is right up there with the guys who will swear that their 196_ fordchevypontiac whatever would run the wheels off anything made today. Those people have a short memory. The fastest cars of the mucsclecar era would be lucky to get into the 13's in the quarter. And then those same cars required extensive regular maintenance to keep running. Ever had to adjust valves in an engine every 2-3k miles? If you havent then you did not own a 13 or even 14 second 60's muscle car. Wow great fun, huh? They loaded up the carb and fouled points if they were asked to idle for any length of time and got horrible gas mileage. A base mustang gt today will outrun the fastest big block mustang of yore with air conditioning, power windows and gets 21mpg on the highway. Most people look at the past with rose covered glasses especially when it comes to cars and the reality is most of the time their memory is tainted. Cars today will outrun out handle and outlast the best cars of any bygone era and most of that is a result of electronics. Don't bash technology you don't understand. Just because you may feel more confortable setting points than diagnosing a electronics module does not mean points are better. I have been in the auto mechanics industry for 20 years and I see guys fallingout every year because they can't or don't want to keep up with technology that is changing as fast as it is..
BTW I know Nelson, I have used his services many times in the past. He is a great guy and possibly the closest thing to an electronics genius I have ever known. Alot of peopel send things that are perfectly servicable and usable to him to make better everyday. To say That Nascar sends them to him because they have to is a misdirection of fact. They send stuff to him because he makes anything better when he sets and adjusts it to the specific use. Nascar racing is a very specific kind of racing and has very specific loads placed on its engines. So what would work for 99% of performance engines is not up to snuff for Nascar.
I have no interest in Crane or Msd or Mallory or any other aftermarket ignition system. But I think the bench racing here has gotten a bit out of hand when you try to pass off 40 year old technology as better because you don"t understand or feel comfortable with truly proven newer technology.
BTW I know Nelson, I have used his services many times in the past. He is a great guy and possibly the closest thing to an electronics genius I have ever known. Alot of peopel send things that are perfectly servicable and usable to him to make better everyday. To say That Nascar sends them to him because they have to is a misdirection of fact. They send stuff to him because he makes anything better when he sets and adjusts it to the specific use. Nascar racing is a very specific kind of racing and has very specific loads placed on its engines. So what would work for 99% of performance engines is not up to snuff for Nascar.
I have no interest in Crane or Msd or Mallory or any other aftermarket ignition system. But I think the bench racing here has gotten a bit out of hand when you try to pass off 40 year old technology as better because you don"t understand or feel comfortable with truly proven newer technology.
Did I say points were better?? I just reread it and I saw "THEY PRODUCE MORE HP UP TO 5000 RPM". Granted , it's ONLY 5 or 10 HP more , but it's there.Am I promoting 40 year old tecnology...I don't think so. Electronics are great...so great as a matter of fact they are much more forgiving than carbs and points. Back then YOU had to know what you were doing to dial everything in and not have a computer compensate for you. Although a laptop in the wrong hands can result in a very quick and terminal meltdown. Isn't it wonderful today ;D
I'm not even gonna comment on everything else you think I said , because I reread what I didn't say any of it.
Now leave me try again to make my point and I'll try to spell it out REAL simple and in small words.
In my own opinion.....for the average boater...there would be no worth while advantage to using an MSD. If you're not running 14:1 compression...not turning it 7500 rpms , the reliability factor of the Thunderbolt far exceeds any gains (if any) to a stock to relatively mildly modified engine.
Got that now? I didn't mention 60's muscle cars and how they couldn't go around a curve without the tires squealing and I certainly didn't say POINTS ARE BETTER THAN ELECTRONICS.
So before you go off on a tangent , reread and understand what your about to say. It's a whole lot easier on your blood pressure
I'm not even gonna comment on everything else you think I said , because I reread what I didn't say any of it.
Now leave me try again to make my point and I'll try to spell it out REAL simple and in small words.
In my own opinion.....for the average boater...there would be no worth while advantage to using an MSD. If you're not running 14:1 compression...not turning it 7500 rpms , the reliability factor of the Thunderbolt far exceeds any gains (if any) to a stock to relatively mildly modified engine.
Got that now? I didn't mention 60's muscle cars and how they couldn't go around a curve without the tires squealing and I certainly didn't say POINTS ARE BETTER THAN ELECTRONICS.
So before you go off on a tangent , reread and understand what your about to say. It's a whole lot easier on your blood pressure
Mopower it seems we are at odds as far as this subject goes and since the person who originally asked seems not to care anymore, and since by now I am sure you have proably decided that I am just a rambling jacka**, which some of my friends may not argue against, I offer this solution.....
This summer hopefully we will meet up sometime out on the water. We raft up. I will open my cooler and "buy" you a drink or twelve and we can hang out on our Formulas and bench race til the Ladies are so sick of hearing about, Multiple spark discharge, and points, and Stochyometric, and Smokey Yunik and Zora Arkus Duntov, and Rats, mice and elephants, Windsors and clevelands, and whatever else we can think of, that they throw our dumb asses in the water and we realize how lucky we are to have these great boats and the ability to come together from all walks of life to enjoy the summer the way it was meant to be enjoyed. Out on the water meeting new friends.
Deal?
This summer hopefully we will meet up sometime out on the water. We raft up. I will open my cooler and "buy" you a drink or twelve and we can hang out on our Formulas and bench race til the Ladies are so sick of hearing about, Multiple spark discharge, and points, and Stochyometric, and Smokey Yunik and Zora Arkus Duntov, and Rats, mice and elephants, Windsors and clevelands, and whatever else we can think of, that they throw our dumb asses in the water and we realize how lucky we are to have these great boats and the ability to come together from all walks of life to enjoy the summer the way it was meant to be enjoyed. Out on the water meeting new friends.
Deal?
It's not that I don't care anymore, I just decided to wait and see what you both had to offer. As far as points are concerned I was glad to see them go away. I cut my teeth on early English 4 bangers. I got tired of setting points, adjusting valves and trying to synchronize a pair of SU carbs. I won't even get into Lucas electrics. Am I a true mechanic, no. More of the shadetree variety. I can tear down an engine and reassemble it. You both have given me some insight on what I may do. As I said in an earlier post this is in the research stage. So thanks to both of you and I hope you can get together this summer and have a one or two or eight or ten together.
resurrected
New member
Thanks! Ithought we were gonna have to bop your heads togrther! ;D ;D ;D(that's what my mom used to say to my brother and I)
206LSDrvr if you have any experiance with English car electricall systems you have already suffreed enough. What ever system you go with will undoubtedly be better than points. I used to work on Old Rolls Royces at a restoration shop. The electrical systems would boggle the mind! Miles of wiring that just seemed to end up nowhere or just back where it started from. It really seemed to have no ryme or reason. I once saw a bumper sticker on an old Jag that said " Why do the English drink warm beer? Because they have Lucas refigerators"
Those early Datsun Z cars were alot of fun. I had 260Z a long time ago. After I changed out those dumb water cooled carbs with a pair of SU's life was a lot easier and fun. That car really would scoot. And reliable as an anvil. They really spoiled them when they went to the 280zx I think. The early ones are the fun ones.
I had '72 240Z that I bought in 1976. All the early smog gear had been taken off of it by the previous owner. I put a set of 40DCOE Webers, headers and a full Mullholland suspension under it. I don't think I ever had a car that would corner any flatter. Body roll was almost nil. Very light and very fast.
Those cars were very simple and so much fun to drive. It sad that no matter how hard they try none of the manufacturors can make a simple fun car anymore. Even the new Miatas are hardly what i would call a simple car anymore. And The early Z's were fast too. Like I said all I did was change out the carbs. If I remember right I just wondered a junk yard checking a bunch of cars til I found an old Volvo station wagon with an in-line four. I took off the carbs and cut the linkage rod between them bolted them up to the z's straight sixe and welded a rod to connect them back together. A rebuid kit was like 10 bucks and had maybe 4 or 5 o-rings and a gasket in it. So much fun. That to me was what hot rodding was all about. Scounging up parts and making due to make something better. I used to love to wonder junkyards looking for hidden treasure. I don't think they let you do that anymore. Oh well the world changes, I guess. Some times for the better but sometimes it seems for the worse.
That's why I like my boat. It's got a 350 4 bolt main block, cammed, World Sportsman two heads, Holley high rise manifold and Edelbrock carb. I'm putting an EMI exhaust on it now hoping to let it breathe a little better. It ain't no ball of fire, but it sure has been fun to play with. Sometime I may take it out 383 cubes, right now I'm not in a hurry to do it. I think I'll kick back and enjoy it for a while.