Auto Pilot solution for 37PC
- Thread starter jetmart
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Finallya37pc
New member
Who said they are no longer available? I see them still available in stock on Defender and elsewhere. I just picked up a new boat and planning to do this project.
Finallya37pc
New member
I'm not for sure just yet how far I will go. I literally just got a new to me '04 34PC off the truck today and have not yet had an opportunity to dig deep into the current configuration, handling behavior and systems condition. When I researched this in the past for an '03 37PC, it was based primarily on a desire to be able to take my hands off the wheel for more than 5 seconds without doing donuts! The tendency of that boat to wander around all over the place at the speed/trim I would run with any of our upper Green Bay chop was very tiresome so I was basically looking for a way to hold the steering where placed as opposed to a 'true' autopilot and the Octopus seemed to be an adequate option because all the steering rigging was in good shape. For the kind of boating we do and considering I only intend to have this boat for a few seasons, tearing apart the entire system and replacing with powered hydraulic setup is probably more than I will care to get into so I have the Octopus only(not integrated with an autopilot controller)on the 'medium priority' winter project list. Having said that, sea trial and a quick shakedown run today has me thinking this boat is not as prone to the pretty dramatic steering creep and changes in course I had experienced with the 37 but I can't say I have enough running time in different conditions just yet to properly qualify that observation. It seems the 34 runs even faster yet in it's apparent happy zone(36mph @ 3600) and I had previously figured out that running the 37 over ~34mph was one way(albeit expensive!) to get it to settle down and track straighter. From memory, the 37 ran a shade over 32 @ 3600 which is the running RPM I always seemed to come back to as best compromise of gettin' there, noise level, bow attitude, etc. Again, not enough running time just yet to qualify any of the observations and things could change as I add water, emergency beer stash, etc.
What autopilot configuration are you thinking of getting into?
What autopilot configuration are you thinking of getting into?
jetmart
Member
I was going to put in the Octopus type - R and a Raymarine EV-150 Evolution 3 years ago but never pulled the trigger. I am planning on going up to the North Channel next year and would like to have a auto pilot. Looking for the easiest install as well. Just starting the research again.
Same here. I actually think we chatted about this back then, as I once had a dock neighbor who had the Octopus Drive on his boat.
My Raymarine Digital Sounding Module is starting to act up, and I've been thinking of refitting the dash rather than putting repair money into 13 year old electronics. I spent a couple hours today looking at, and comparing various chartplotters, ect... So I'm following this topic for sure, as I'd probably plan the autopilot as part of the refit should I pull the trigger.
"Finallya37PC" brings up an interesting topic with regard to a full hydraulic steering retrofit. Sure would be nice to get rid of the typical play that exists in the steering wheel of a cable-actuated power assist system, and also be able to steer with a single finger. Probably not money well spent for anyone with a possible upgrade on the horizon...which could be me. I'm curious though, is there a fully hydraulic retrofit for these boats that allows one to keep the OEM steering wheel? I know little about this topic.
Finallya37pc
New member
It's been a while since I looked into the details and maybe someone with real world experience will chime in but I recall I had deduced that, if one really wanted a true autopilot solution, hydraulic steering or a conversion to it was the logical first step. As V1rowT8 points out, the typical cruiser cable over power assist is inherently sloppy/vague and my direct experience is that setting and maintaining a heading requires much more consideration of wind and sea state conditions than on the the larger boats where autopilots are more prevalent. What I can't say is how much of that is due to weight, inboards, speed, steering surface area, etc. that would also be different to 34/37PC as opposed to the actual steering rigging. I can't find it right now but there was an extensive thread on topic somewhere like offshore only or maybe Sea Ray forum that the octopus did not really play nice with autopilot controller as it is designed for setting/holding a steering position as opposed to a heading and the higher rate of responsiveness of stern drives to relatively minor inputs could cause a lot of back and forth between octopus, heading sensor and controller.
Again, it's been a while and all based on third hand net chatter but I came away with the impression that it certainly 'could' work but at end of day the octopus is kind of a band aid solution in the first place especially for heavy twin sterndrive boats with an aggressive deadrise. It's logical the autopilots are probably designed, programmed and calibrated based on inboards and hydraulic rudders so I could certainly see how it might be pushing one's luck to add the task of continuous small heading adjustments. I've always been curious to know how well autopilots work on a sterndrive boat even with hydraulic steering compared to inboard/pods but don't have anyone to directly consult on that.
Again, it's been a while and all based on third hand net chatter but I came away with the impression that it certainly 'could' work but at end of day the octopus is kind of a band aid solution in the first place especially for heavy twin sterndrive boats with an aggressive deadrise. It's logical the autopilots are probably designed, programmed and calibrated based on inboards and hydraulic rudders so I could certainly see how it might be pushing one's luck to add the task of continuous small heading adjustments. I've always been curious to know how well autopilots work on a sterndrive boat even with hydraulic steering compared to inboard/pods but don't have anyone to directly consult on that.
This is my first season on our 07 34pc with hydraulic steering and autopilot.
I can say the hydraulic steering upgrade is absolutely night and day compared to my (worn) cable set up.
You should be able to keep your steering wheel, you would just need to get a new hub that goes from the 6 bolt pattern to a 3/4 taper shaft. The reason many don't keep the steering wheel is due to dash upgrades at the same time.
The hydraulic steering set up isn't that hard to install if you are at all handy. The helm bolts right in, no dash mods necessary. The steering ram assembly needs to be removed to install the hydraulic cylinder and remove the cable, but besides very tight access there isn't anything tricky.
Then it's just a matter of running the lines. If you want to do stages, I would 100% run the third line and leave a logical place for the AP fittings depending on what hose setup you run.
I went the easy route with the nylon tubing, and it works. Better would be getting customer lines built with a junction somewhere in the rear to later add the AP hoses.
I would recommend paying someone with a power bleeder to bleed the whole system, though it is 100% doable with the parts they gave you. I made a kit like you see on youtube with hardware store components to make an endless loop while bleeding.
I can say the hydraulic steering upgrade is absolutely night and day compared to my (worn) cable set up.
You should be able to keep your steering wheel, you would just need to get a new hub that goes from the 6 bolt pattern to a 3/4 taper shaft. The reason many don't keep the steering wheel is due to dash upgrades at the same time.
The hydraulic steering set up isn't that hard to install if you are at all handy. The helm bolts right in, no dash mods necessary. The steering ram assembly needs to be removed to install the hydraulic cylinder and remove the cable, but besides very tight access there isn't anything tricky.
Then it's just a matter of running the lines. If you want to do stages, I would 100% run the third line and leave a logical place for the AP fittings depending on what hose setup you run.
I went the easy route with the nylon tubing, and it works. Better would be getting customer lines built with a junction somewhere in the rear to later add the AP hoses.
I would recommend paying someone with a power bleeder to bleed the whole system, though it is 100% doable with the parts they gave you. I made a kit like you see on youtube with hardware store components to make an endless loop while bleeding.
Turbo Joe...
I have the same boat, and my hand may be forced on at least a partial helm refit, and this would be the time to address this, if ever. Thus, this conversion is compelling.
A few questions if you don?t mind:
- What brand system did you choose?
- What is the current draw of the hydraulic system, and I assume it?s all DC? Wondering what effect that has on the factory electrical system that was not designed with this load in mind.
- Upon completion of this retrofit, it?s my understanding that here is no ?centered? position for the steering wheel anymore....right? So you could be driving along in a straight line with the steering wheel upside down, showing a turn, etc....? If so, I can envision that causing one to switch to a model of steering wheel that has no clear centered position in its design. At least for me, driving around with the OEM wheel upside down while going straight would be a non-starter.
- Lastly, did you incorporate autopilot? If so, I?d be interested in chatting with you about that.
Thanks in advance,
V1
Sea's the Day
Member
Several years ago I installed the Octopus R mechanical helm. (I actually live about a mile from Defender and spoke with the Octopus rep at their spring sale.) I was planning on connecting this to my Garmin 4208 as an autopilot. I initially was just using the handheld remote but there was just too much slop/looseness in steering to warrant completing the project. Maybe at trawler speeds it would be OK but at planning speeds I wasn't comfortable. I still have the remote but I haven't used that in sveral years. I've left the Octopus helm in place as there's no difference in helms. I definitely agree with going with hydaulic steering.
That settles it for me. I had heard inferences to the Octopus behaving as you describe, but your first-hand account takes it off the table for me. Thanks for your input!
Jetmart,
I have been looking deeply into this for the past week or so, and have spent several hours on the phone to numerous parties about this issue. My conclusion:
The inherent flaws of cable steer, i.e. play in the system, heavy steering, ect..., will leave the Octopus setup a distant second. The constraints of the design will never allow the Octopus to be smooth...especially in turns. It's off the table for me.
However, there are fully hydraulic solutions, and I have found one that is VERY compelling, albeit likely expensive. While most hydraulic steering systems have hydraulic lines connecting at the helm, the Optimus EPS system does not. It is steer by wire. http://www.seastarsolutions.com/pro...-steering/optimus-eps-inboard-and-sterndrive/ The chain goes like this: Steering helm changes to a new electronic helm, with only a data wire to the hydraulic control head...which is located near the drives. Two separate hydraulic pumps are fed by the control head, which feed individual "smart" cylinders, which are connected independently to each drive. There is no need for rudder feedback units in the water, as the position data is integral to the smart cylinders. And if interested, autopilot can then be added with a simple connection between the autopilot electronics, and the steering system control head. All major manufacturers make an autopilot interface, intended for "steer by wire" systems.
The actual helm control offers a couple features that are not available in a simple all-hydraulic system. The ability to change steering ratio at slow speeds vs faster speeds...selectable by the operator. Tighter steering for slow speeds, makes running the vessel off-plane easier, docking easier, ect. Less aggressive ratios are set at higher speeds, to avoid jerky steering. All selectable by the operator via a helm user interface. Weight of the steering feel is also adjustable across all speeds.
What's really interesting is that this system can also be expanded to full joystick capabilities...with the addition/conversion to Digital Throttle Controls. That "enhanced" system is referred to as Optimus 360. Turning your boat into an Axius type system is completely possible if you want to go that far, and it can be done in stages. I won't be doing that, as I have a bow thruster, and that's enough for me. Just getting rid of the stiff steering and play in the steering wheel that is ever present in cable steer would be my goal. On a related note, I'm told that all Formula PCs are now coming out of the factory with steer by wire.
Back to autopilot: There's no need for a separate hydraulic power pack, as the hydraulics that power the steering cylinders are utilized instead. All you would need is a "steer by wire" autopilot package from one of the major manufacturers. If I were to go this far, about 2.5K more would get full autopilot capability, in a system that would be smooth and largely constraint free from an engineering perspective. Here's a link to Garmin's version of all you would need to add:
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/599973
And Raymarine's version of the same. This includes a generic one size fits all schematic which shows the Optimus EPS interface:
https://www.raymarine.com/view/index-id=7686.html
Lastly, here's a pretty good video explaining the basics of the system. Although it's a single engine outboard application, there are also stern-drive packages for dual engine setups as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HYi3T_DwC0
Lots more I could share about how it all comes together, but that's enough for now. If you want more info, reach out....
Best...
V1
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Finallya37pc
New member
i for one would much appreciate if experience and discussion were shared in open forum.
NC Robert
Member
I am curious if you ever did this project, and if so how it worked out for you.
This thread hasn't been active for a while, but if any commenters are still following, I did go to fully hydraulic steering a year ago. What a difference. Absolutely transformed the boat. This enabled autopilot...which tracks dead straight. Actually, the boat tracks straight without steering intervention even without the autopilot on. An amazing difference. Any interested parties...reach out if you have any questions.
I can confirm, the number 1 best upgrade you can do you a cable steer boat. Especially a worn out cable steer system.